[Talk] [Fwd: [ECTALSR] 9/11 Flag Flying]

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>>> To show our love of our Country and the freedom it provides.
>>
>> Why in honor of the anniversary of a sad and upsetting event? What's 
>> the goal sought to be achieved by whipping up patriotic "love of 
>> country" and tying that in with a memory that is both saddening and 
>> angering -- to what end?...
>>
>> When the masses get whipped up in directionless emotions that are tied in
>> with anger, they can be dangerous...


> What is wrong with the above, if, say, the leader is right?

Which leader, what instigator, and in furtherance of what goal?  Whose 
idea this is, and what the public support will be maneuvered or 
manipulated toward is something I want to know first, before the great 
unwashed begin clamoring with fervor and in anger.

Otherwise, we're not much better than the fundie Moslems going off in 
irrationality.  Mob think is dangerous.  I'm not into encouraging 
lynchmobs, irrational groupism, or anything that goes with such nonsense. 
"Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité" etc. (There's always a patriotic or 
religious groupist frothing going on that's the first step to manipulate 
the masses.) Not to pick on the French Revolution, but it's a pattern that 
too frequently repeats, one degree or another.

> I know that we are going to disagree on the Iraq war and Bush

Guess then I'm in good company with Bush's Daddy.  :-)

> But the point is that the US has declared war (or as close as we come to 
> it these days) against terrorism

"War on Poverty"
"War on Drugs"
"War on Terrorism"

This is language nonsense.  "Terrorism" isn't a country.  It's one thing 
to use "war" in a figurative sense; quite another to get people so 
dementia that they mistake figurative language for actual war and start 
looking around for people to kill.  There are plenty of nasty regimes 
around the world; we haven't attacked them.  The war in Iraq has 
absolutely nothing to do with stopping terrorism.  It's a commercial 
oil-based issue.

But I am not into diverting the issue into politics.  Wherever reasonable 
persons may disagree, the key is, let's remain reasonable, and thoughtful. 
Not inane.

> The point is that different people disagree on points - for example, I 
> believe that it is important to celebrate our patriotism on 9/11 -

What, really, does "celebrate our patriotism" mean?  Strikes me as 
meaningless.  Sloganism, word yammering.  We're celebrating our own 
emotions and feelings?  Gee, why?  Don't they stand on their own?  (Or is 
this all really about something else, supra.)

> As a nation we should remember them, and we should aggressively defend 
> ourselves.

Well then perhaps we should be bombing the shit out of the country the 
terrorists came from, Saudi Arabia.  Iraq was not threatening us.

> I don't think that there is a chance that they (fundie Muslims) will 
> love us.

No, because they're already too dementia and whipped up with their own 
irrational, patriotic and religious fervors.  A perfect example of why we 
don't want people to turn off their brains and imitate this sort of thing.

> Being a patriot is its own point.

I don't think so.  I'm not into groupism and us-them, me-you bigotry for 
its own sake.

> Do you think that some point will be served by shoving our heads into 
> the sand and forgetting the facts surrounding 9/11?  I don't.

I don't think we actually have the facts.

liz

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