[Linux] do members of flux ever get together and form spin-offs?

Sun, 25 Mar 2007 08:03:53 -0600

------=_Part_182348_11518920.1174831433426
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

I have suggested a number of projects to a number of groups. The responses I
got ranged from 'why would you want to do that', to 'the right way is to
start a project, code a prototype and have people join the team' to 'why not
do it in perl?' ...

An example: I thought that distributed peer to peer video/audio streaming
(as opposed to d/l) is a worthwhile project (I still do). I thought it can
easily be accomplished by slight modifications of the bit-torrent scheme,
specifically by changing the file slicing and the priorities algorithm so
that the pieces are d/l in a semi-chronological order instead of least
common piece first.

I proposed and got the following: why do that? bit-torrent is not efficient
for streaming (well, Duh!?), why don't you write a prototype? You can get
inexpensive coders to work for you in Estonia (true, that one is not from a
Linux guy), etc.

Needless to say, there are a handful of companies now doing something
similar for a living. The Eurovision was broadcast in one such application.
Companies are getting millions in VC money (neokast anyone?) for developing
such products and services. But these are not open source projects. And as a
non-programmer, I am blocked from writing my own code.

The point is, Linux/OSS people have a tendency to march to their own
drummer, and with tunnel vision, are hampering the possibility of creating
software that is outside their own personal interest ("I am a perl monger,
and I want to take all the bugs from this web page auto update script!"). At
least this is my opinion/experience. And in the meantime, the proprietary
model people are getting the money and the goods.

Z.

On 3/25/07, Terry Richards <sn00per1@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> Steven Benmosh wrote:
>
> > 1. On the camera, I did not bother. I upload to the mac and ftp to the
> > ubuntu box.
>
>
> well thnx anyway, i was motivated to re-double my efforts getting my
> argus 1512 hooked up but there are only drivers for the 1500, 1510 qmd
> 1600. i think i read somewhere that it is not so simple to get this
> particular on to interact without the store bought drivers which are for
> M$ and Mac and i am not gonna pay $35 for the software to run a $20
> camera...no dice. but hey! i did get digikam up and running :-) i'm
> always up for something new.
>
> >
> > 2. On Linux, the key is that to succeed in business you need some
> > skills outside the technical realm, and it is easier to find those
> > outside the geekworld.
>
>
> a little background: i under no way consider myself to be a
> goldfish-eating college dropout<a geek>. yes industrial phychology and
> finance but as someone recently pointed out it is easier to teach a CS
> person business than it is to teach a business person tech stuff
>
> >
> > 3. Kwan, I get the feeling that you work alone. From what I have seen,
> > you are a first rate technical guy, so I am not surprised you are not
> > starving. But to make a team work, you need team members to agree on
> > things, otherwise the whole is less than the sum of its parts.  Most
> > people are not as technically savvy as you are and need to decide on
> > markets to explore and ways to attract customers to products and
> > services that can be gotten from others just as well. For those, you
> > need skills like marketing, being nice, dressing nice, talking nice,
> etc.
> >
> > I have tried to get people to work on projects that I think could sell
> > and/or benefit the world. I could never find anyone to agree to a set
> > of goals and execute on a plan.
> >
> did you try to accept what your peers suggested or did they just not
> want to do what you wanted to do? one of the things i like about open
> source is that what drives it is what works best. i realize i have not
> given it much time but i am disappointed that the first few responces
> were strawmen arguments or non-sequlars or what ever you call them. if
> the stated goal is to "do something" with "linux" and make it "open"
> then something should happen, shouldn't it? if you have an idea then out
> with it but all the negative vibes is not good for anyone. everyone
> knows of some "market" that they can exploit. customers come out of the
> woodworks at times and services can always be gotten for less, look at
> MCI. there isn't any business that can't be "taken" by lower
> costs/prioces and well....you can't beat free; except by "value added"
>
> my $2.00<adjusted for inflation>
>
> /|\
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux mailing list
> Linux@flux.org
> http://www.flux.org/mailman/listinfo/linux
>

------=_Part_182348_11518920.1174831433426
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

I have suggested a number of projects to a number of groups. The responses I got ranged from &#39;why would you want to do that&#39;, to &#39;the right way is to start a project, code a prototype and have people join the team&#39; to &#39;why not do it in perl?&#39; ...
 An example: I thought that distributed peer to peer video/audio streaming (as opposed to d/l) is a worthwhile project (I still do). I thought it can easily be accomplished by slight modifications of the bit-torrent scheme, specifically by changing the file slicing and the priorities algorithm so that the pieces are d/l in a semi-chronological order instead of least common piece first.
 I proposed and got the following: why do that? bit-torrent is not efficient for streaming (well, Duh!?), why don&#39;t you write a prototype? You can get inexpensive coders to work for you in Estonia (true, that one is not from a Linux guy), etc.
 Needless to say, there are a handful of companies now doing something similar for a living. The Eurovision was broadcast in one such application. Companies are getting millions in VC money (neokast anyone?) for developing such products and services. But these are not open source projects. And as a non-programmer, I am blocked from writing my own code.
 The point is, Linux/OSS people have a tendency to march to their own drummer, and with tunnel vision, are hampering the possibility of creating software that is outside their own personal interest (&quot;I am a perl monger, and I want to take all the bugs from this web page auto update script!&quot;). At least this is my opinion/experience. And in the meantime, the proprietary model people are getting the money and the goods.
 Z. <div>On 3/25/07, Terry Richards &lt;<a href="mailto:sn00per1@bellsouth.net">sn00per1@bellsouth.net</a>&gt; wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Steven Benmosh wrote: &gt; 1. On the camera, I did not bother. I upload to the mac and ftp to the &gt; ubuntu box. well thnx anyway, i was motivated to re-double my efforts getting my argus 1512 hooked up but there are only drivers for the 1500, 1510 qmd
 1600. i think i read somewhere that it is not so simple to get this particular on to interact without the store bought drivers which are for M$ and Mac and i am not gonna pay $35 for the software to run a $20 
camera...no dice. but hey! i did get digikam up and running :-) i&#39;m always up for something new. &gt; &gt; 2. On Linux, the key is that to succeed in business you need some &gt; skills outside the technical realm, and it is easier to find those
 &gt; outside the geekworld. a little background: i under no way consider myself to be a goldfish-eating college dropout&lt;a geek&gt;. yes industrial phychology and finance but as someone recently pointed out it is easier to teach a CS
 person business than it is to teach a business person tech stuff &gt; &gt; 3. Kwan, I get the feeling that you work alone. From what I have seen, &gt; you are a first rate technical guy, so I am not surprised you are not
 &gt; starving. But to make a team work, you need team members to agree on &gt; things, otherwise the whole is less than the sum of its parts.&nbsp;&nbsp;Most &gt; people are not as technically savvy as you are and need to decide on
 &gt; markets to explore and ways to attract customers to products and &gt; services that can be gotten from others just as well. For those, you &gt; need skills like marketing, being nice, dressing nice, talking nice, etc.
 &gt; &gt; I have tried to get people to work on projects that I think could sell &gt; and/or benefit the world. I could never find anyone to agree to a set &gt; of goals and execute on a plan. &gt; did you try to accept what your peers suggested or did they just not
 want to do what you wanted to do? one of the things i like about open source is that what drives it is what works best. i realize i have not given it much time but i am disappointed that the first few responces 
were strawmen arguments or non-sequlars or what ever you call them. if the stated goal is to &quot;do something&quot; with &quot;linux&quot; and make it &quot;open&quot; then something should happen, shouldn&#39;t it? if you have an idea then out
 with it but all the negative vibes is not good for anyone. everyone knows of some &quot;market&quot; that they can exploit. customers come out of the woodworks at times and services can always be gotten for less, look at
 MCI. there isn&#39;t any business that can&#39;t be &quot;taken&quot; by lower costs/prioces and well....you can&#39;t beat free; except by &quot;value added&quot; my $2.00&lt;adjusted for inflation&gt; 
/|\ _______________________________________________ Linux mailing list <a href="mailto:Linux@flux.org">Linux@flux.org</a> <a href="http://www.flux.org/mailman/listinfo/linux">http://www.flux.org/mailman/listinfo/linux
</a> </blockquote></div>

------=_Part_182348_11518920.1174831433426--