[Linux] Call for speakers (was: External firewire drive)
Larry Kagan
linux@flux.org
Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:08:50 -0400
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Without going into detail, I respectfully disagree with some of what you
say. Also, you're essentially preaching to the choir. However, we do
want to make this list useful for all types of Linux users, including
newbies. So thank you for your response.
This leads me to the point of this email. Most of us, I'm sure, know
how to implement disaster recovery solutions. But are we doing it at
home? I'm willing to bet not. So here's my list of excuses:
* I don't have time.
* The data on my personal machine isn't that important.
* I'm going to do it but I want to research the best solution.
* I use subversion on a remote machine so that's good enough for now.
Let's make linux disaster recovery a bit more accessible (ie: force-feed
solutions). Let's compile a list of 'Linux Disaster Recovery'
mini-sessions where each speaker reviews a single DR solution. A
DRPalooza, if you will. The goals of each mini-session are:
* Review the benefits of the specific DR solution.
* Review the drawbacks of the specific DR solution.
* Give everyone in the meeting precise, step-by-step instructions
for implementing the solution.
* Supply heavily commented shell scripts used to implement the
solution (both backup *and* restoration)
Each mini session should use OO for presenting slides with the above
information (excluding code) and export them to PDF for posting in a
single place just prior to the session(s). We can create a downloadable
tarball that contains a directory inside of it for each solution's PDF
slides and shell scripts. We will either host the tarball on FLUX or my
company's server.
Here's a starting list of solutions we can present:
* tar
* dump/restore
* cpio
* Amanda
I volunteer to present a cpio solution.
We may be able to present all solutions in one single FLUX meeting. If
not, we can just take up two months of FLUX meetings. I'm pretty sure
Adam won't mind.
By the way, if anyone reading this has considered RAID 1 or 5 as a full
backup solution, F.I.U. offers a great program in the Culinary Arts.
Let me know your thoughts.
Larry
Aaron Wolfe wrote:
>
> I know the point of your message was how good the hardware support of
> linux can be these days, and that is really cool. Ubuntu is an
> impressive distro. Debian has always been really nice on the lower
> level stuff, and the Ubuntu folks have kind of filled in the rest of
> the package by adding more frequent updates and a much easier user
> interface to Debian's power.
>
>
>
> But....the mention of using a hard drive as a "personal backup
> solution" made me cringe. I've been a consultant of one type or
> another in the IT industry for 15 years now and cannot count the times
> that people have been utterly let down by such a system.
>
>
>
> It's not that you can't use a hard drive as a reasonable backup, but
> most people don't. Simply copying your files to another place every so
> often is a very poor backup. It relies on you making sure that every
> file you copy is correct before you do the "backup", and thats a
> nearly impossible goal. I don't know how many clients I've seen with
> two perfectly identical copies of their virus infested, mistakenly
> edited or otherwise corrupted files.
>
>
>
> You can use a hard drive to store incremental backups, transaction
> logs, or as part of some kind of revisioning system, and then it's a
> pretty fast and accessible means of backup if not an especially
> reliable one... but people almost never do things that way. To make
> it worse a lot of the external hard drive manufactures actually market
> them as backup solutions but include software that just does a copy
> every so often. Not good! Even worse are the "Raid 1 backup
> solutions" where you basically just destroy multiple copies of your
> data in the same time it takes to destroy one.
>
>
>
> So maybe you know all this already and I hate to beat a dead horse, I
> think this has been covered on this list before. I just always have
> this "oh no" reaction when I hear about external hard drive backups
> and felt compelled to speak out J
>
>
>
> -Aaron
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* linux-admin@flux.org [mailto:linux-admin@flux.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Larry Kagan
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 27, 2007 11:44 PM
> *To:* linux@flux.org
> *Subject:* [Linux] External firewire drive
>
>
>
> I just got back from CompUSA where I purchased a CompUSA brand
> firewire PCI card for my desktop and a MAD DOG external firewire drive
> enclosure (MD-AEN350COM).
>
> I just wanted to tell you all how easy this was. I took a drive out
> of my machine and put it in the enclosure. I seated the Firewire card
> in the desktop. I connected the two, turned everything on and viola,
> Ubuntu recognized it without a hitch. It's located at /dev/sda1 on my
> machine. If any of you are considering this as a personal backup
> solution, I highly recommend it.
>
> I can't hear the sound of the enclosure over my machine and I'm not
> even sure if it makes any sound at all. If you're worried about heat,
> don't be. It's only a few degrees warmer than the ambient temperature.
>
> Sometimes it amazes me how easy some of these linux distros have becomes.
>
> Speaking of sound, can any of you hardware guys recommend a quiet cpu
> fan for my AMD Athlon(tm) XP 1500+?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Larry
>
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<small><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Without going into
detail, I respectfully disagree with some of what you say. Also,
you're essentially preaching to the choir. However, we do want to make
this list useful for all types of Linux users, including newbies. So
thank you for your response.<br>
<br>
This leads me to the point of this email. Most of us, I'm sure, know
how to implement disaster recovery solutions. But are we doing it at
home? I'm willing to bet not. So here's my list of excuses:<br>
</font></small>
<ul>
<li><small><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">I don't have
time.</font></small></li>
<li><small><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">The data on my
personal machine isn't that important.</font></small></li>
<li><small><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">I'm going to do
it but I want to research the best solution.</font></small></li>
<li><small><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">I use subversion
on a remote machine so that's good enough for now.</font></small></li>
</ul>
<small><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Let's make linux
disaster recovery a bit more accessible (ie: force-feed solutions).
Let's compile a list of 'Linux Disaster Recovery' mini-sessions where
each speaker reviews a single DR solution. A DRPalooza, if you will.
The goals of each mini-session are:<br>
</font></small>
<ul>
<li><small><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Review the
benefits of the specific DR solution. <br>
</font></small></li>
<li><small><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Review the
drawbacks of the specific DR solution.</font></small></li>
<li><small><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Give everyone in
the meeting precise, step-by-step instructions for implementing the
solution.</font></small></li>
<li><small><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Supply heavily
commented shell scripts used to implement the solution (both backup <b>and</b>
restoration)<br>
</font></small></li>
</ul>
<small><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Each mini session
should use OO for presenting slides with the above information
(excluding code) and export them to PDF for posting in a single place
just prior to the session(s). We can create a downloadable tarball
that contains a directory inside of it for each solution's PDF slides
and shell scripts. We will either host the tarball on FLUX or my
company's server.<br>
<br>
Here's a starting list of solutions we can present:<br>
</font></small>
<ul>
<li><small><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">tar</font></small></li>
<li><small><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">dump/restore</font></small></li>
<li><small><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">cpio</font></small></li>
<li><small><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Amanda<br>
</font></small></li>
</ul>
<small><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">I volunteer to present
a cpio solution.<br>
<br>
We may be able to present all solutions in one single FLUX meeting. If
not, we can just take up two months of FLUX meetings. I'm pretty sure
Adam won't mind. <br>
<br>
By the way, if anyone reading this has considered RAID 1 or 5 as a full
backup solution, F.I.U. offers a great program in the Culinary Arts.<br>
<br>
Let me know your thoughts.<br>
<br>
Larry<br>
</font></small><br>
<br>
<br>
Aaron Wolfe wrote:
<blockquote
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<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">I know the
point of your message was how
good the hardware support of linux can be these days, and that is
really cool.
Ubuntu is an impressive distro. Debian has always been really nice on
the
lower level stuff, and the Ubuntu folks have kind of filled in the rest
of the
package by adding more frequent updates and a much easier user
interface to
Debian’s power. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">But….the
mention of using a hard
drive as a “personal backup solution” made me cringe. I’ve
been a consultant of one type or another in the IT industry for 15
years now and
cannot count the times that people have been utterly let down by such a
system.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">It’s not
that you can’t use a
hard drive as a reasonable backup, but most people don’t. Simply
copying
your files to another place every so often is a very poor backup. It
relies on you making sure that every file you copy is correct before
you do the
“backup”, and thats a nearly impossible goal. I don’t
know how many clients I’ve seen with two perfectly identical copies of
their virus infested, mistakenly edited or otherwise corrupted files. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">You can use
a hard drive to store
incremental backups, transaction logs, or as part of some kind of
revisioning
system, and then it’s a pretty fast and accessible means of backup if
not
an especially reliable one… but people almost never do things that
way.
To make it worse a lot of the external hard drive manufactures actually
market
them as backup solutions but include software that just does a copy
every so
often. Not good! Even worse are the “Raid 1 backup solutions”
where you basically just destroy multiple copies of your data in the
same time
it takes to destroy one. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">So maybe you
know all this already and I
hate to beat a dead horse, I think this has been covered on this list
before. I
just always have this “oh no” reaction when I hear about external
hard drive backups and felt compelled to speak out </span></font><font
color="navy" face="Wingdings" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Wingdings; color: navy;">J</span></font><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">-Aaron<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font
color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;">
<hr tabindex="-1" align="center" size="2" width="100%"></span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font color="black" face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; color: windowtext; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font
color="black" face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; color: windowtext;">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:linux-admin@flux.org">linux-admin@flux.org</a> [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:linux-admin@flux.org">mailto:linux-admin@flux.org</a>] <b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Larry Kagan<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, June
27, 2007
11:44 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:linux@flux.org">linux@flux.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> [Linux]
External firewire
drive</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: windowtext;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Helvetica" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica;">I just got back from
CompUSA
where I purchased a CompUSA brand firewire PCI card for my desktop and
a MAD
DOG external firewire drive enclosure (MD-AEN350COM). <br>
<br>
I just wanted to tell you all how easy this was. I took a drive out of
my
machine and put it in the enclosure. I seated the Firewire card in the
desktop. I connected the two, turned everything on and viola, Ubuntu
recognized it without a hitch. It's located at /dev/sda1 on my
machine. If any of you are considering this as a personal backup
solution, I highly recommend it. <br>
<br>
I can't hear the sound of the enclosure over my machine and I'm not
even sure
if it makes any sound at all. If you're worried about heat, don't
be. It's only a few degrees warmer than the ambient temperature.<br>
<br>
Sometimes it amazes me how easy some of these linux distros have
becomes.<br>
<br>
Speaking of sound, can any of you hardware guys recommend a quiet cpu
fan for
my AMD Athlon(tm) XP 1500+?<br>
<br>
Thanks.<br>
<br>
Larry</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
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